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Jef"I am the pusher robot"Spaleta - I love Fedora's focus on the future.
ramblings of the self-elected Fedora party whip
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I love Fedora's focus on the future.
I think the Featuring process that Fedora now is an incredibly good thing. Is it perfect? No, what process is? But I think it does an extremely good job of trying to capture the spirit of the technology advancement that really distinguishes Fedora.

And its not gone unnoticed outside of Fedora itself. Right now at this very moment, 2 out of the top 3 "ideas" on Ubuntu's brainstorm this week are requests to take features from the Fedora Feature process for Fedora 10 and port them to Ubuntu.

http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/most_popular_this_week/

I think thats great. I think its great that the integration work that we do in Fedora, is desirable by users of other distributions. Since we do as much as possible in upstream project instead of patching new functionality into our packages it should be quite easy for other people to enjoy those features too. It's hard work, breaking trail, its nice to know that the work being done by Fedora contributors is widely appreciated.

But, popularity of an idea, doesn't make the idea happen. I think our featuring process does a good job of helping us focus on what is achievable in a way that a popularity metric simply can not do. We may still need to optimize how the featuring process works and the timescales involved in terms of milestones and review points, those are important process details. But I think the fundamental point of the feature process is dead on. It turns desire into a set of actions and step to achieve a goal for each release and it provides us a way to recognize that activity and the dedication to see an idea through.

-jef
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From: (Anonymous) Date: January 17th, 2009 02:00 pm (UTC) (Link)

Would be nice if...

It would be nice if Ubuntu contributed back as much as they take. Pretty much all their good stuff originated somewhere else. Mostly developed by Red Hat, Fedora and the Fedora & debian communities. And to the comment from bochecha "Simply wait" on the brainstorm link you gave I can only say this: look at who's paying for that upstream development or who is actually employing these upstream developers? Most likely you will find it's Red Hat behind a ton of all this shiny new functionality that you and your Ubuntu folk happily use without contributing back.
jspaleta From: jspaleta Date: January 18th, 2009 01:51 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Would be nice if...

bochecha is astroturfing inside brainstorm a little... which is unfortunate I think. I do not like astroturfing. I give Canonical a hell of a hard time, in certain public forums like blogs, or press articles feedback sections, places that encourage personal opinion comments or editorializing, but I draw the line at walking into their work spaces like mailinglists or forums or launchpad's bug tracker or irc channels..or even brainstorm's commenting system. Advocacy and editorializing have their places, but not inside task oriented communication channels.

I have absolutely no problem with others following Fedora...or wanting to be like us. Part of good leadership is figuring out how to turn followers into good leaders in their own right. I personally consider it a failure for Fedora, if we don't figure out how to help Canonical become leaders in some area that we can all be proud of them for. I think that's part of the strong reaction to Canonical in the development community, part of its just disappointment because we all sort of think Shuttleworth and Canonical could be a leader in open technology development..and they just aren't living up to their potential. I would imagine its sort of like having a kid who you know is really really smart, and really really talented but is more interested in being popular at school, than reaching their full potential in school or any activity..other than shopping at the mall and 'hanging out'. Having a kid like that probably makes you a little mad, and a little frustrated..sort of how Shuttleworth makes me feel. But I hate kids, so what the hell do I know.

And this wasn't the point of my post anyways. My point was stress that our featuring process is valuable and its worth nuturing. I think its a very good best practice that should be replicated. I had a great conversation this morning in the "real world" while attending a panel discussion meeting concerning the planning of a local non-profit. Yes, open source technology advocacy is not the only place with I gift my time. Anyways..this conversation was very much about the lack of value in spending a lot of time "brainstorming." My jaw almost dropped, because I didn't say that, it was the other people..people who have no idea about open source or linux. I'm still trying to synthesize that conversation into my worldview. I love brick and mortar volunteer organizations full of non-geeks because understanding their problems brings deep insights into the problems we have in geek-filled volunteer organizations, and vice versa. Except the drastically different geek percentage means discussions and problem-solving flow in very different ways. Same problems, but vastly different approaches.


-jef
From: bochecha.id.fedoraproject.org Date: January 19th, 2009 01:04 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Would be nice if...

> "bochecha is astroturfing inside brainstorm a little... which is unfortunate I think."

Well... First of all, I have to say that I started using Linux with Ubuntu. Which means I've had accounts on their tools before I started _using_ Fedora (which is way before I started contributing to it :).

Also, I try not to go there and bash Ubuntu, compare the two distros, and such. I like the idea of Brainstorm and I like to go there and spend some time reading through it. IMO, that's a great tool for knowing what people are wanting, and maybe what can be the future of the Linux desktop (if only Canonical would actually implement and contribute back more).

I never comment on stuff that are totally specific to Ubuntu, because as you said, that's a system they use to have work done. But yes, I sometimes add a comment, mainly to clarify some points, like this time, where the idea was supposing that Fedora did something "for itself" and that others would need to "implement it for themselves".
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Jef Spaleta
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